Curse

TopGun · Jun 19, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Has anyone encountered any bartering? Actual TRADING? Not buying/selling, but say, trading one weapon for another weapon, or something along those lines?

Jwh6913 · Jun 19, 2005, 04:37 AM // 04:37

I tried to trade- took me 2 hours before i gave up- that's the problem and trading gold for a weapon vs weapon for weapon is pretty much the same

ManadartheHealer · Jun 19, 2005, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Has anyone encountered any bartering? Actual TRADING? Not buying/selling, but say, trading one weapon for another weapon, or something along those lines?

The closest thing I've encountered is people trading 100k+7 unid'd rares for a sigil

Eclair · Jun 19, 2005, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Has anyone encountered any bartering? Actual TRADING? Not buying/selling, but say, trading one weapon for another weapon, or something along those lines?

Why would you want to? Bartering became obsolete when the currency system was established. That's like regressing =P

TopGun · Jun 19, 2005, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Well, bartering orignally came about in the early ages in order for two people to both gain what they desired with little or no negative impact on either of them. If I'm a Knight with a staff and you're a Mage with a sword, we can swap and both be happy. Once currency was established, you could sell the sword and then buy the staff, or perhaps if you didn't need the staff, sell the sword anyway and buy food, farming equipment, whatever. But with the economy so inflated, it may become far too expensive to actually BUY weaponry, so we're better off swapping weapons. Works for both of us.

Eclair · Jun 19, 2005, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

Well, bartering orignally came about in the early ages in order for two people to both gain what they desired with little or no negative impact on either of them. If I'm a Knight with a staff and you're a Mage with a sword, we can swap and both be happy. Once currency was established, you could sell the sword and then buy the staff, or perhaps if you didn't need the staff, sell the sword anyway and buy food, farming equipment, whatever. But with the economy so inflated, it may become far too expensive to actually BUY weaponry, so we're better off swapping weapons. Works for both of us.

However, that's assuming you find someone who has something u want, and wants something you have with items that are worth roughly the same. Things like that rarely happen, and that's why eventually a currency was developed in DII, because trading by bartering alone was next to impossible.

Halios Gasinova · Jun 19, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

First off, I must thank TopGun for actually bringing up an issue without blantly bashing ANet or the Guild Wars community. Too many people think that the way to solve anything is by that force, but TopGun has shown the true way of handling a situation. Bravo!

The SHop idea is an amzing idea. For anyone that has played Ragnarok, this is what they do. They have shops that you can just go AFK and people can come by and look at your wares. They see your wares and buy from you and you receive the gold after you come back. Good, good idea for the Guild Wars community. They should probably take out the Trade Channel if they add this and just allow the user to put a single sentence over head, describing their shop.

I don' think a Gold Wipe is the best thing to do. That would bring SOOO many issues up and really give people a bad feeling because they have worked for that gold and to see it all go down the hole because some people are more fortunate would be almost a crime.

Sinks are a good idea. They give us something to really put our money into after we get that really good looking 15k armor (which, I must say, the Warrior's is AMAZING!). It'd probably bring prices down on other items, because some people wouldn't have as much so they'd demand lower prices- for a time. They prices would just continue to rise again though. It'd be just a rotating thing. I would like Guild Banks and Customization of Guild Halls. Also, more things to get for a Guild. I want to PIMP OUT my guild, ya know?

Keep me informed, dudes,
Halios Gasinova

Jwh6913 · Jun 19, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

i know a gold wipe would have been extreme, but how can we eliminate the gold that's already IN the economy and it's not flowing out? it's staganting and causing inflation. it's similar to the US mint printing out a billion dollars on paper and distrubuting it without taking out the old worn out dollar bills that's still worth something.

sinks would help, but people have a tendancy to HOARD things. they make excuses like better sinks coming up, etc etc.

I like the shop idea, but the people on dial up can't go afk easily. i think a npc ran sauction house would function better in that regard.

EmperorTippy · Jun 19, 2005, 05:40 AM // 05:40

who still has dial-up?

Jwh6913 · Jun 19, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

quite a few. I myself had dial up until last month!

Seth Oriath · Jun 19, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwh6913

quite a few. I myself had dial up until last month!

And I as well. However, these shouldn't be too taxing if a special district/section of town were dedicated to them (kinda like the Arenas for each city or something). Limit the district sizes to be smaller than a regular district, allow special districts for weapons/foci, runes, etc. (but add a misc. section so that there's not too many of them), give a menu before entering to go to the shop dist. you're wanting (such as for the weapons, etc.), and that should be it.

theclam · Jun 19, 2005, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwh6913

do you ever recall a time where you struggled to buy something because you didn't have enough gold? that's what we're talking about

Actually, no I can't recall a time past about lvl10 when I struggled to buy something. There isn't anything that I can't afford that I need and there are very few things that I can't afford that I want.

Also, shops are such a bad idea. Auction Houses are far superior in every respect. They make it easier for buyers and sellers to find each other, don't require sellers to stick around, and bring prices closer to what they should be.

RickSlick · Jun 19, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

One negative thing about shops/afk traders is that then you would have a MUCH larger portion of the playerbase tying up bandwidth (however minimal) by remaining connected to the servers while AFK. ANet may not be set up to handle the additional load at first, and there would be heavier lag during critical PVP battles.

I would much rather see an NPC like the Storage NPC that had maybe 10 slots to which you could drag items you wanted to auction. Those items would be listed in a central auction database also accessible from that Auction NPC if you wanted to buy, but your items stayed in auction regardless of your online status. Any money generated from the sale of your auctions would be retrievable from the Auction NPC the next time you logged on. Not sure if this was what people meant by an auction house, but it prevents people from having to remain connected to the game, tying up valuable bandwidth.

Overall, every item sells for precisely as much as some sucker is willing to pay for it. If prices are too high, it's only because people are still willing to buy at those high prices.

King of Fools · Jun 19, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

i could even live with ac1 one's merchant system where you sold stuff to merch and it was still available to everyone else to buy from that merch.

daoc style consignment merch would be cool IF not everyone had to buy their own.
instead, we buy slots on the merch put items up for sale in those slots. when they sell. we go back to merch to collect money.

hmm, could even make it a variation on the current xunlai agent storage. let us put a price for everything in there. no price means not for sale. if somebody willing to buy at price we set then it sells. the money gets added to the cash we have in storage.

anyone could go to any xunlai agent and do queries for anything on sale. that would probably the easiest to implement.

Envy · Jun 19, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

"instead, we buy slots on the merch put items up for sale in those slots. when they sell. we go back to merch to collect money."

Great idea. I would much rather see this then the current npc merchant system. One thing that still rubs me is AN created the inflation not the player base. This has been said in every thread like this one. When the items stopped falling the prices sky rocketed. Who had the items to sell after the nerf? The farmers that had already made large sums of gold. 100k isn't alot of gold to them and 5k just isnt worth the effort. Those people are STILL farming, just with different methods, and a inflated economy. Now that AN returned some manor of farming the prices are once again coming back down. The same rare things still go for insane amounts but it's no different then the real world. Bill Gates spends 1k on a armani suit where you spend 100 on a clone. Just insert your rare and commen items in for the suits.

Stone · Jun 19, 2005, 08:32 AM // 08:32

What they need is simply a trading only town. atm you have to warp 50times to cover a good advertising spree , that doesnt include changing districts.
often you have some1 in lions arc selling a sigil(ex)or somthing for 10000 then warp to next town& som1 selling same thing for 1k .

of your many valid points the base problem is price fixing & it is possible for the large friendbase/guildbase groups.
the new scrolls for example have started at the trader for 25g, went to nearly 20p & now sitting at 2-3p , need i go into how that happens? <_<

whats needed is a central Trading hub, a place where prices are kept honest by competition.. even tho this itself is manipulated by those that dont even have items to sell..

Perhaps its all just normal for Highly Competitive trading games.

The coin is a Pretty thing , but there are always 2 sides to it.

asdar · Jun 19, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

I should just stay out of this but I can't.

There's nothing wrong with the economy. I think what has happened to prices is what they intended or worked out even better.

The game never had a 'market' like other games. Nobody is a crafter except NPC's. What weapon do you want that you can't find? If you post a where did this drop you can go find it yourself.

The very best weapons in this game are obtainable by everyone, the armor is crafted and price fixed and the best shields and Icons are usually price fixed.

The prices are not inflated because new people don't know what to sell/buy their items for, they're inflated because people are stupid enough to buy items they could easily get for themselves at an outrageous price.

I wouldn't mind at all a trading zone, it could be the one dot exception to my rule of opening the entire map.

TopGun · Jun 19, 2005, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

There's nothing wrong with the economy. I think what has happened to prices is what they intended or worked out even better... The prices are not inflated because new people don't know what to sell/buy their items for, they're inflated because people are stupid enough to buy items they could easily get for themselves at an outrageous price.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, to tell the truth. When you say people are stupid enough to buy items at inflated prices, isn't that the same thing as saying they don't understand their item's worth?

If you mean to say that the general populace is lazy and don't want to go hunt down their weapon, then perhaps there you have a point, but must people pay such skyrocketed prices? Granted, I'm all for Capitalism and I believe that lazy people who would rather sell a lucky drop and buy a weapon with the money, rather than find the weapon themselves, should have to pay a handsome fee for their weaponry; but as of now, prices are so inflated that it takes more work and time to find the money to BUY an item you like than to get it yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halios Gasinova

First off, I must thank TopGun for actually bringing up an issue without blantly bashing ANet or the Guild Wars community. Too many people think that the way to solve anything is by that force, but TopGun has shown the true way of handling a situation. Bravo!

Thanks for the compliment.

Celestial Harmony · Jun 19, 2005, 01:20 PM // 13:20

I agree with theclam.

There is no item, or only a few items in this game that you cannot find relatively quickly if you just go out and look for it, most can be brought via npcs,

what could you possibly want that its 'worth' 100k upwards that you couldn't just go out and look for for free?

To people selling for 100K+ - why? whats the point? what do you want with all that gold? the only plausible reason i can see for wanting massive amounts of gold in guildwars is to re-sell it for RL money on ebay, and isn't that against the Terms and Conditions?

Seriously it doesn't take long to just go out and find stuff, it happens to me as i'm lvling or playing through the story, either that or a friend or guildmate will find something i need and give it me for nothing, i will do the same for them and were not talking the odd bit of crafting material here but Runes, Upgrade compnents, new weapons etc we just pass them along with absolutely no gold at all changing hands.

You wouldn't need an auction house if people weren't so greedy for a currency that is pretty much worthless although I can see how an auction house is a good idea for people not in guilds or with a large circle of guildwars-playing friends, the is an auction house in FFXI which i used to play and it worked pretty well there.

aja · Jun 19, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

well, i have encountered bartering myself...

[story]

i decided to go and try to find a buyer for the max dmg chaos axe with no mods i had found in fissure a little while earlier. after a while i found someone and told him i was offering it at 2k. he replied that he didnt have enough gold. so he offered me 1k and a few dyes and misc items. i accepted gladly b/c imo chaos axes are pointless.

[/story]

bartering ftw!